BARON VON RASCHKE

THIS is What the People Need to Know

Interview By Dr. Abner Mality

Many people have heroes. They look up to great scientists, baseball players, politicians, historical figures. Well, my hero is Baron von Raschke and he's been in that position since about 1974 or so!

Anybody old enough to remember the old territory wrestling days will surely recall this bald-headed, cauliflower-eared German with the gravel-throated roar. With his dreaded hold THE CLAW, he terrorized every territory he visited as one of wrestling's ultimate badmen. He challenged Verne Gagne and Bruno Sammartino for their World Heavyweight Championships and his team with Mad Dog Vachon still gives people nightmares. Yet he ended his career in the AWA as a hero who was beloved by all.

Something about the Baron always appealed to me, even in his heel days. There was a kind of twinkle in his eye that told me he was having fun even while threatening to squeeze somebody's brains out with the Claw. When he became a "good guy", I was relieved, because I no longer had to conceal my admiration for him.

Not too many people get a chance to talk to their heroes, but I did just that. Herr Baron recently called me from his home in Minnesota and we spent about an hour talking about many phases of his career. What an honor it was! And I can always think of about a 1000 more questions to ask after I hang up the phone.

I want to extend my deepest thanks not only to Baron von Raschke, but also my good internet friend "Chitown" Rich Tito, who helped to set this up. Rich is a credit to the wrestling community and humanity in general.

Und now, ve talk to Baron von Raschke...und you vill like it!!!!


WORMWOOD CHRONICLES: I just want to let you know something. Sometimes you never get a chance to thank the people that entertained you so much. This gives me the chance. You were my favorite AWA wrestler.

BARON VON RASCHKE: Thank you!

WC: I was down many times to Boylan Catholic High School to see you compete.

BVR: Good old Boylan High School...

WC: Did you use the Claw as your finishing maneuver right from the start of your career as Baron von Raschke?

BVR: No, it was the standing backbreaker.

WC: When did the Claw come in?

BVR: I started using it after I had been in the business for about three years. Before I had ever seen it used in the ring or knew much about it, I was working for Eddie Farhat (the Sheik) in the Detroit area. He got a call from St. Louis, the National Wrestling Association They wanted me to wrestle someone so I got a plane ticket and flew into St. Louis. It turned out I was wrestling Pat O'Connor and I got into a match with him. During the match, he said "Put the Claw on me, kid!" By the way, I was called "kid" until the last two years I was in the business. (laughter) Anyway, I says "what's that, what's that?" He said "Just put your hand on my head..."

WC: And squeeze...

BVR: And squeeze. He had me in a hold where I was on my back and my legs spread apart. I did that and the crowd went crazy, they went nuts! So we fooled around with the Claw and I thought, "Gee, that's pretty good!" To make a short story long, I forgot about it because it was just one match and I wasn't a regular in St. Louis. I was there for that one match and then I went back to Detroit for a while and then I went to Dallas. There, Don Jardine, who wore a mask but I don't remember what they called him...

WC: The Spoiler!

BVR: Spoiler, yeah. Gary Hart was his manager. Both Spoiler and Fritz von Erich used the Claw. So I didn't use it down there at all, I used my standing backbreaker.

WC: That had to be the greatest collection of Claw practitioners in the same place at the same time!

BVR: Well, I wasn't using the Claw regularly at that point, so they were safe.(laughter) I left Dallas and I went to work for (Wilbur) Snyder and Dick the Bruiser in Indianapolis. The first week I was in town, who should be staying at the same hotel as my wife and me but Pat O'Connor? He was good friends with the Bruiser, as it turned out, and he told Bruiser "You gotta let that kid use the Claw!" I said OK, I'll try it. One thing led to another and the first night in town, I went up against a guy called Paul Christy. Paul did a wonderful job of helping me get over and from then on, the Claw was my hold and after a few months in the territory, everybody expected me to use it and wanted me to use it.

WC: You were both a heel and a face during your career. Which one did you prefer?

BVR: I don't really have any preference. To me, it was all work and I did the same thing at different times. The people really enjoyed it and that was all I really cared about. In my own inimical way, I made the people happy or the opposite of that. Whatever was needed at the time.

WC: I remember when you came back as a face to go after Jerry Blackwell and Big John Studd. The roof blew off the building!

BVR: Yes it did. They had that set up really well and I came in when poor Mad Dog had reached rock bottom in the mine!(laughter) That was a great time in my career to come back and be accepted by the people the way I was.

WC: You had a lot of partners over the years. Who was your favorite to work with?

BVR: Mad Dog was my first and it's like lovers...the first is always the best. I learned so much from working in the ring with Dog and talking to Dog in the car. I would say he's my favorite but I really enjoyed all the guys I've teamed with. Horst Hoffman and Paul Jones and Greg "The Hammer" Valentine. Later I teamed with the Crusher. I got along good with all these guys. We always had a good time and got the job done, I hope.

WC: I always thought your team with Horst Hoffman was interesting. How did you gel with him?

BVR: Really good! We got along really well. Because I had adopted a more crazy style, he had this really smooth approach. It got over and I enjoyed my time with Horst. I think we had some really good matches and really good rivals.

WC: A lot of people were disappointed that that team broke up. Did he go back to Germany?

BVR: Yeah, he had a business opportunity in Germany so he went back there. Russell Kaiser the promoter in Mosel, Germany had passed away and Horst was the heir apparent at the time. He went back to run the wrestling business in Germany and he also got involved in an antique store over there.Eventually he settled in the States, in Florida and married a gal and he's happily living down in Florida.

WC: You wrestled in all three of the big promotions, the AWA, the NWA and the old WWF. What was the flavor of each promotion like?

BVR: Well, they're all different, but they're all the same,too. It's all based on wrestling and they guys are different but they're the same, also. There's camaraderie and fellowship and rivalries. That stuff is in every territory but there's not that much difference. Of course, the promoter is always out to make as much money as they can and give out the least money they can, so that always stays the same! Larry Hennig said that the money and the miles are the only things that are real in our business.

WC: When you were at the height of your heel days, did any crazy fans try to assault you?

BVR: Several times people would try to accost me or my partners and it usually wound up in a bad result for them. Basically the people knew enough to stay away and they did. They're there to watch the show. The protection, the cops were usually good,too.

WC: When you first started out, you teamed a little with Hans Schmidt...

BVR: Oh yeah. I broke in in Minneapolis under Verne Gagne, he was my tutor. That's where I met Mad Dog for the first time and he took a liking to me. He was an old amateur wrestler, Verne was an old amateur wrestler and I'm an old amateur wrestler, getting older every day, thank you for asking.(laughter). Anyway, Mad Dog took a liking to me and asked me if I would be his partner up in Quebec, Canada and not knowing any better, I said sure. So off I went with my new bride Bonnie, Mrs. Claw, So we teamed up there. With him being not the tallest guy in the world and me being about three inches taller than my hair and neither one of us being the most attractive guys in the world, our team was instantly hot in the territory. He could work and I couldn't, but that was OK. Any way, that territory had been down for many, many years and I think our team helped pop it so that it was up for a long, long time after that, even after we left.

Anyway, we went up there in the early spring of whatever year it was and we had a really great run going into the fall. Mad Dog unfortunately was riding with Larry Moquin and they slipped off the road during an icestorm. Dog split his pelvis so he was out of action. When that happened, the front office teamed me up with Hans, who was one of the original TV villains in wrestling. Again, we had two really ugly guys together. He was tall and I was tall and that got over,too. The heat continued throughout the whole thing.

WC: My Grand-dad got me into pro wrestling and I remember he hated Hans Schmidt with a passion. He really did his job well there!

BVR: Yes he did. He was one of the toughest guys,too. He was a great guy.

WC: You mentioned training with Verne Gagne. How tough was his training? I heard it made Army basic training look like a walk in the park.

BVR: Well, Dan Gable, the famous amateur wrestler, said that after wrestling, everything else was easy. Fortunately, I had been an amateur wrestler for many, many years before I started working out with Verne. It was a tough training camp and it was hard and they didn't clue me in to what the business was really all about until after three months. I spent a lot of time doing hard work like running, exercising, lifting weights and chopping wood. It was hard, no doubt about it, but it wasn't anything I hadn't done or couldn't do, so I got through it.

WC: What's your assessment of Verne? Was he a pretty fair guy to deal with?

BVR: Verne's a very good businessman and as a businessman, he usually gets the best of his deals. I'm not a very good businessman, but that's OK. He gave me my break and put time and effort into starting not just me but many other wrestlers in the business. So I can't complain about him.

WC: He produced more high level wrestlers than just about any other guy I can think of.

BVR: Yeah, Verne had an eye for quality and he picked out some really outstanding people.

WC: I think it's because he did go to the amateur ranks for his guys. He already knew he was dealing with a good athlete.

BVR:. Right.

WC: At the other end of the scale, you were there at the end of the AWA. How painful was that to go through?

BVR: The miles were the same and the payoffs were the same. But it was hard, because you knew it was going out the window. The houses weren't what they should have been and blah,blah,blah. It was a sad thing to see but life goes on.

WC: I grew up with it. To me, it was like watching somebody you knew fade away. Do you watch today's wrestling at all?

BVR: Not if I can help it.

WC: How far has the psychology of it fallen since your heyday?

BVR: I think they've gone into making it a play and it's gotten almost completely away from any kind of wrestling or wrestling skills. It's not even close to what it's based on. If I say anything negative, it sounds like sour grapes but it's something that's completely different. They don't have a clue as far as what excites people, what gets people hot. You know, it's all action and high spots but there's no sense having action and highspots without a buildup, you know? No sense cutting to the chase if there's no chase!

WC: And nobody sells anymore, either.

BVR: No, that's what I'm saying. There's no need to have a high spot because nothing leads to it.

WC: Do you think wrestling will ever return to a more athletic based product?

BVR: I have a hunch that someday, sometime people will wise up to the fact that this isn't very interesting. It's a lot of glitter, it's a lot of glam, it's like "Cats" on Broadway. It's a good show but that's all it is. There's no drama, there's no reason to come back to see it. When people realize that, they'll quit going.

WC: A lot of fans such as myself have already sworn it off. I'm not convinced that they're getting new fans to replace the ones from my generation.

BVR: Yeah, I've heard that,too. They've lowered it to the lowest common denominator, they've gotten really, really vulgar. They sell a lot of stuff to kids but it's something I wouldn't let a kid watch. My children would not watch pro wrestling today. And back in the day, everybody could watch it. Grandma and grandpa, mother and father, the kids. Everybody sat around a TV on a Saturday or Sunday and watched it.

WC: That's how I was introduced to it. I live in Rockford, Illinois and my grandfather lived in Freeport, which is a good distance away. We'd used to go see him on Sundays and I always told my Dad "Hurry up, hurry up, I want to get there by the time the wrestling comes on!" I don't know if you see that anymore.

BVR: I have a hunch you don't.

WC: What would you say was your favorite feud of all that you were involved with?

BVR: Different times, different places, it's really hard to say, But the Rougeau Brothers and Carpentier in Quebec with Mad Dog and myself and Hans was a great one. Bruno in New York, Blackwell and Studd...it's really, really hard to pick one. Wahoo and Steamboat, Flair and Blackjack Mulligan. They were all interesting and all intense.

WC: In all the time I watched wrestling in my area, I can't think of anything that created as much interest as around 1976, your cage match with The Crusher.

BVR: Da Crush!

WC: They turned away over 500 people that night!

BVR: They probably did. Crush was great. We got to be really great friends and we got to be partners there at the end.

WC: Have you got any good Crusher stories to share?

BVR: (laughs) A ton! I'm not a good storyteller and nothing pops into my head right now. He was a great guy, he loved his family and worked hard.

WC: He was my Grandpa's favorite wrestler.

BVR: I'll bet you had beer on your Wheaties in the morning, right? (laughter)

WC: Around 1984 or so, you had the AWA tag team straps with the Crusher. During that time, you met up with the Road Warriors. Did they try to rough you guys up in the ring beyond what they should have?

BVR: I suppose they might have tried. I don't know how successful they were.

WC: I also heard that Larry Hennig and Jerry Blackwell laid down the law on them during a match.

BVR: Crusher and I had to do that with them,too, a little bit. Are you familiar with Jim Lauraneitas, Joe Laurenaitas' kid? (Joe L = Road Warrior Animal--Mality)

WC: Yeah, he's doing great! He might get a Heisman trophy! (James L. is having an outstanding college football career--M)

BVR: Well, maybe not a Heisman, because he's on defense but sure. Only one defensive guy has won it before.

WC: Let me give you some names now and say whatever pops into your head...

BVR: Here comes trouble...

WC: (laughter) OK, the first name is Bobby Heenan.

BVR: Bobby the Brain Heenan! He's one of my best friends. Great guy, quick wit. Funny, funny man. And he always took care of his mother and his grandmother.

WC: Is he doing alright these days? I know he had a tough patch for a while.

BVR: I haven't talked to him for about two or three months now and I need to get a hold of him to see how he is. Up to then, he was doing fine. He went through that throat cancer thing...both him and wife have had bouts with cancer. They seem to be doing good and they have a good attitude, so I think things will work out.

WC: How about Bruno Sammartino?

BVR: Bruno! Another great guy...what can you say about Bruno? I think he's everyone's favorite. I think everybody liked him. He's a stand-up guy. He stood up for the guys he wrestled with, the guys he wrestled against and he was a good man.

WC: Bruiser Brody...

BVR: Bruiser Brody...I didn't know him real well. But he was a lot of action, he made a lot of things happen. He was his own man and unfortunately...

WC: It caught up to him.

BVR: He was overtaken in the shower down in Puerto Rico and it was really too bad.

WC: The news of his death shocked me the most because I thought he was the most indestructible looking guy I had ever seen. How about Hulk Hogan? What's your take on him?

BVR: Hulk Hogan. Well, he's a very successful man in our business. Probably not the greatest, but everybody else thinks he is. He's made a lot of money so more power to him.

WC: In the long run, do you think he helped the business or hurt it?

BVR: He was just a guy doing what he does and the promoters pushed him to the forefront and he did all he could do with it. The people bought it, so I guess it's alright.

WC: How about Ric Flair?

BVR: Ric's a good guy and a great worker. Dynamite in the ring. A good talker, the whole package.

WC: Vince McMahon Junior...

BVR: Ah! Vince McMahon Junior! He knows how to make money, I guess, so more power to him,too! From what I watch on TV, I can't support his morals or how he's entertaining the people, but evidently he entertains a certain element and he's very successful at it.

WC: Here's a guy that you probably worked with and against many times: Nick Bockwinkel.

BVR: Yeah! (chuckles) Nick is a great guy, a super worker, he came from a family of wrestlers. His dad was a wrestler. He's one of the greatest of all time, as far as I'm concerned. He's real smooth in the ring and he had really long, long interviews. And he's the only wrestler I know who, as a child, peed on World Champion Lou Thesz.

WC: Huh?!?

BVR: Lou was visiting Nick's dad's house and he picked the baby up, who was Nicky, and Nick's diaper leaked.(laughter)

WC: That was probably the only way you could really over on Lou Thesz! It took me a long time to appreciate how good Nick was. When I was growing up in the 70's, he was the guy you hated more than anybody else.

BVR: Yeah, he had a kind of burning heat to him.

WC: Here's another guy you've met and teamed up with: Wahoo McDaniel.

BVR: Wahoo! Him and I were in the Big Eight together at different schools. He went to Oklahoma, I went to Nebraska. He was a senior when I was a sophomore. First time I saw him, he was in a football uniform on the line and he looked like a steam locomotive about ready to explode and fortunately on that day, Nebraska upset Oklahoma for the first time in 47 games, HAHAHA!!! Well, Wahoo and I got to be great buddies later on. We always talked about the old football days. When I was drafted into the Army, I was stationed in Brooklyn, New York and Wahoo was drafted into the NFL, he went to the Jets. Everytime he would make a tackle, everybody would say "the tackle was by who?" and the answer would be "Wahoo! Wahoo!" He was bigger than Joe Namath before Joe Namath got there.

WC: I think he still holds the record for the longest punt in college football. Moving on to a different subject now, I know you were the subject of a play, "The Baron". What was that experience like?

BVR: Well, it was different. Once again, much like Hulk Hogan and Jesse Ventura, I've proven that wrestlers are not actors. (laughter) But it got over and they picked up the play and it will be in production from the middle of April til May next year at the History Theater in Minneapolis.

WC: Is there any way to get a tape or DVD of it?

BVR: I have no idea. Why don't ya come up and see the play?

WC: I'd like to. Will you be in it?

BVR: Yes, I'll be in it. I guess George Clooney and Brad Pitt had deals, we couldn't get them to play me! (laughter) They found the third most handsome man in the world!

WC: What else have you been up to since you've left wrestling?

BVR: Well, I make appearances like at Ethel's Bar. On the 25th, I'm gonna be in a parade near Milwaukee, in Grafton, Wisconsin. In December, I'll be in Milwaukee at some event and then the next night in Grafton, I'll be there to sign autographs, too.

WC: Now you get a chance to meet some of the fans. That's got to be kind of rewarding.

BVR: It is! It's always kind of fun. Almost every one of them is so happy about the experience they had with the AWA and the AWA wrestlers. It's a real pleasure to meet them.

WC: I look back on it and it's bittersweet. It's great memories but that kind of entertainment's not going to come this way again. Looking back at your career, would you have done anything different?

BVR: You know, I got kind of famous. In a small way, I'm famous. But I think I would have spent more time getting rich. (laughter) Fame isn't bad but it's not like being rich.

WC: In your day, it was tough to be rich as a wrestler.

BVR: Yes, it was. You didn't make as much money as everybody thought you did. It was tough and it wasn't as good as some people thought it was. It's kind of hard to explain.

WC: Well, Baron, I'm flabbergasted that you took the time to give me a call. Thanks for a great interview.

BVR: (in his growling voice) Alright, Herr Mike! And that is all you need to know!!!